Gov. Mark Gordon apologized to Secretary of State Chuck Gray at a Wednesday meeting after telling Gray to “shut up” last week during one of their frequent spats.
Gordon also urged a decorum gesture from members, asking them to direct their comments “through the chair” during meetings, which in this case would be the governor.
“I believe I owe an apology for my choice of words last week during the State Loan and Investment meeting,” began Gordon. “Mr. Secretary, I owe you a personal apology, and an apology to the members of this board and the people of Wyoming.
"I should not have lost my composure, and I apologize for that.”
Gordon pivoted to say he had hoped people attending State Building Commission Board, at which he delivered his apology, and other boards would welcome a relaxed, less formal environment, “migrating into formality only when it’s absolutely necessary.”
But it’s time for a change, he said.
“Unhappily, that sort of free interplay has demonstrated a tendency to degenerate into tit-for-tat exchanges that often do not advance the work of any of these boards,” he said.
The State Building Commission, State Loan and Investments Board and the State Board of Land Commissioners all comprise the state’s five executive-branch elected officials: Gordon, Gray, Superintendent of Public Instruction Megan Degenfelder, Auditor Kristi Racines and Treasurer Curt Meier.
“It is not my style to be formal,” continued Gordon.
But to curb “heated arguments,” he said, he asks that from now on “all commentary proceed through the chair, and that that commentary be delivered only when the chair recognizes the speaker.”
He said he’d retain the prerogative as chair to limit exchanges of rebuttals as necessary.
Where Do We Start?
Gray and Gordon have clashed for several months on state boards.
One of the most notable of these arcs started in April 2025, when Gray was the lone no vote against leasing state lands for two controversial wind projects.
Gray then took to social media and public statements to attack Gordon for the latter’s aye vote. He called wind Gordon’s “outrageously wrong vision for Wyoming."
Gordon returned fire with his own public statement and interview.
In an October meeting of the State Building Commission, Gray derided a bill veto Gordon had authored more than a year prior.
Gordon seemed prepared for the attack, and had a copy of his full veto letter handy to give to Gray for fuller reference.
“What else would you like to argue about?” asked Gordon at the time.
Treasurer’s What-The-Heck
By then, Meier had had enough.
“This forum here is about doing business of this committee. It’s not to have a stage for the secretary every time this topic comes up — and every time there’s some bill you had vetoed and he had (supported) during the legislative session,” said Meier at that meeting.
Gray uses these meetings “as a political platform to have a discussion that necessarily has absolutely nothing to do with the work this committee does,” said Meier. “And I’m tired of my time being wasted.”
Gray said he wanted to respond to Meier’s “false statements,” but Gordon was trying to permit Degenfelder to speak instead.
“You will be respectful!” said Gordon in an elevated tone.
Step Outside
The conflict peaked at the Jan. 8 meeting of the State Board of Land Commissioners, while officials discussed a judge’s order blocking the controversial Pronghorn project slated for Converse County, which was one of the two the board approved last April.
Gordon said he’d wager the board would rescind the controversial lease. But he urged awareness of property rights on all sides and the state’s duty to get value for its lands.
Gray asked Gordon “to please instruct the (Wyoming) Attorney General not to undercut the will of the board over the next four weeks."
Wyoming Attorney General Keith Kautz had told Cowboy State Daily he would appeal the court order that had blocked the lease, because he believed the order hinged upon an incorrect reading of the law.
Gordon said he and Kautz had talked about the importance of clarifying how that language should be read, “so we didn’t wind up with crazy issues,” but that he would tell Kautz he couldn’t undercut the power of the board.
Gray pressed the matter, saying there are “some things” Kautz could do.
Gordon bristled: “To cast aspersions on the attorney general — former justice — is, i just don’t think that’s a good idea, Mr. Secretary.”
Kautz was a Wyoming Supreme Court Justice before he reached age 70, the state’s age cap for the position. Gordon selected him to serve as AG after that.
Gray said he took “deep umbrage” at Gordon’s assertion he’d casted aspersions.
Gordon tried to interrupt, and Gray interrupted back.
Gray said, “He stepped in and — “
“Step outside. Do you want to step outside?” parried Gordon.
“Are you threatening me?” asked Gray.
“No, I’m asking if you want to step outside,” answered Gordon.
“Are you threatening me?” asked Gray a second time. “I’ve never seen anything like that. That is astounding.”
Degenfelder tried to interject.
With a palm-down hand gesture toward her, Gray said, “please stop interrupting.”
Gordon’s office later said the “step outside” comment was an invitation to discuss things outside with more clarity, not an invitation to fight.
Then Came Last Thursday
The State Board of Land Commissioners was discussing state funding for a housing program at an April 2 meeting when Gray brought an amendment to run housing applicants through the federal Department of Homeland Security’s Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements program (SAVE) to verify citizenship.
“Only citizens should be receiving these benefits,” said Gray.
Degenfelder said she wasn’t opposed to the concept, but she struggled aloud with the legal ramifications and logistics of tethering a state funding plan to a federal executive-branch program.
Gray’s tone turned emphatic.
“It might get litigated, if we had a good governor that told his attorney general to follow the provisions of the original grant. If not, then, I don’t know, the court might say there’s no standing there,” he said, adding that the outcome would depend on the “rigor and vigor of the AG, and the rigor and vigor of the governor at the time when that action happened.”
Meier said he agreed that “aliens” shouldn’t have government benefits but wondered whether it would be more efficient to have local sheriffs check applicants’ citizenship status through their existing relationships with Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) rather than heap an “unfunded mandate” on the state board’s administrative office.
Law enforcement would have more thorough enforcement provisions toward illegal citizenship situations anyway, “and (illegal aliens) will be going back home where they should be,” Meier added.
“I’m trying to help you, Mr. Secretary,” said Meier.
Gordon said it was time to move on.
Degenfelder said she echoed some of Meier’s thoughts, and she warned against criticizing people for having differing ideas of how to reach the solution.
Gray pushed for speaking privilege, saying, “There were inaccurate things that were said. I’ve got to respond.”
“You don’t have to respond,” said Gordon. “And there’s a lot of inaccuracies that fly around this place here.”
Degenfelder prompted Gordon to recognize her so she could speak.
“Hold on, hold on,” said Gray.
“Stop!” Gordon shouted. “Shut up! I have the superintendent. Then I will recognize you.”
“Mr. Chairman,” said Gray. “You’re violating your rules currently. You just referred to me in a negative fashion. You’re violating your own rules for decorum.”
Gordon then said, “we’re going to pause for a bit.”
He stood and with a gesture toward the door said “come on,” to Gray.
Gray remained seated. A snippet of incredulity sounded from Gray before the sound cut out on the meeting video stream.
The screen turned black, with the words “Meeting Room” emblazoned in white.
Statements
Gray issued a statement on the matter while the meeting was still ongoing.
He wrote that ensuring entitlement programs like housing only extend to U.S. citizens “is very important to President Trump’s vision of ensuring that entitlement benefits are only going toward citizens of our country.”
"It is outrageously wrong that Gov. Mark Gordon ruled this motion out of order, and it shows once again how liberal Mark Gordon is,” he added.
The secretary later claimed Gordon was upset about the amendment.
Gordon’s spokeswoman Amy Edmonds, in response, called Gray’s commentary “continued, predictable mudslinging” and said Gordon is focused on his work.
“While the Secretary continues his attempt to bolster his campaign by currying favor with President Trump using nothing but rhetoric, Governor Gordon is focused on implementing the President's vision in matters like winning the AI data race,” said Edmonds.
Gray issued another statement on the matter four days after it happened, saying, “Gordon’s outburst was deeply troubling and part of a continued pattern of insider behavior where Gordon tries to use out of control antics to try to shut down any discussion of common-sense, America-first policy.”
Clair McFarland can be reached at clair@cowboystatedaily.com.
