Wendy Corr:
Well, hey there, folks. Welcome to the Roundup. We are a Cowboy State Daily podcast, and our focus is on interesting people in the Cowboy State. And when I say interesting, I'm telling you, our guest today has lived such an interesting - and might I say, epic - life, and she's going to tell us all about that.
Shelli Johnson is - I'm so thrilled to be able to spend a little bit of time with her this morning, and thrilled to be able to introduce those of you who have not met Shelli to her really amazing transformation in two careers. And it's just, it's phenomenal. So I'm excited to have this conversation with Shelli.
But first, I want you folks to know about another podcast. It's called the "Business From the Basement" podcast. It's from the Wyoming Business Alliance. This is a great, great podcast and resource for anybody who's a business person in the state of Wyoming.
So check it out, the "Business From the Basement" podcast. This is by the Wyoming Business Alliance. If you're a business person, you're going to want to see what they have and who they're talking to.
But don't go there first, first you’ve got to stay here with us, because we're talking with such an amazing, accomplished Wyoming woman, and I'm so pleased to be able to finally make her acquaintance. Shelli Johnson, hello, coming at us from your sheep wagon.
Shelli Johnson:
Yes, hi, Wendy. And thank you for that generous introduction, and thank you for the opportunity today.
Wendy Corr:
Oh, this is going to be so fun. I have to tell you, folks, that I met Shelli today for the first time, but I've known about Shelli for a long time because her father is one of Cowboy State daily's ultimate rock stars, Bill Sniffin. Bill Sniffin is so proud of his daughter, Shelli.
And I'm like, why have I not talked to Shelli before this? Because Shelli is so accomplished in her own right. And I just, I'm so thrilled to be able to talk to her today. Shelli, you are a Wyoming girl. I mean, Wyoming is in your heart. You may not have been born here, but it didn't take you long to get here.
Shelli Johnson:
Yes, that's right. When I was three, my parents moved us from Iowa to Wyoming, and nothing against Iowa. I love Iowa. But this, I consider that one of the greatest gifts from my parents. I just, I love Wyoming. I love that there are only, you know, just over a half a million people, and that there are more animals and people and endless, you know, seemingly endless, frontier land. And I just, it suits me. So I'm grateful to my parents for moving us here.
Wendy Corr:
It does suit you. When you started, like when you started out for your career, though, you had a career path, you kind of followed in your dad's footsteps, and so you went into newspaper publishing. But then you took off on a different direction from just straight newspaper publishing, and that won you awards. Tell us about Yellowstone Journal.
Shelli Johnson:
Okay, well, first of all, growing up in Wyoming, it's such an outdoor mecca, and my parents, I'll tell you a little bit about the backstory leading up to my publishing, if that's okay, or my my journal. So my parents, really, love of Wyoming, and my mom's love of Wyoming inspired my love of Wyoming.
They took us on picnics, and we’d get lost on the roads out in the red desert and Loop Road and Yellowstone on the weekends. And so I was raised very much around the beauty, and, you know, the beauty and majesty of Wyoming.
But honestly, I was more of a jock. You know, in high school, I played basketball, volleyball and track. I wasn't much of a hiker at all, you know, maybe to the falls and back or something so. But I went to college at University of Montana, actually, on a division one full ride basketball scholarship. So basketball was my passion.
It actually ultimately didn't end up working out. After three years, I lost my scholarship, but it was one of the best blessings. You know, when you look back and connect the dots, because that's what led to my interest in hiking and so many of my passions that are staples in my life and my work.
But I went to the journalism school at University of Montana. I started out in psychology, and then after one year of myself talking to the journalism advisor -and I think I always knew I always wanted to be a writer. Even in elementary school, I would write notes to my friends that were stories. You know, I always wanted to be a writer.
So I got my journalism degree from University of Montana with a marketing minor. I started with an advertising sales job at the Missoulian, the daily newspaper there at the time, and then after that, I was a co publisher of a weekly newspaper in Winner, South Dakota for a couple of years.
Wendy Corr:
Wow. Winner. I know where Winner is!
Shelli Johnson:
Yes, the opposite of loser, right? Yes, yeah, it's spelled W, I N, N, E, R. I always say that because people used to think I met ‘Winter,’ like, you know, winter, but it's Winner. But that was one of the hardest things I've ever done, but one of the most informative experiences I've ever had.
But after that, I really wanted to cut my teeth on, I wanted to do my own thing, you know. And Yellowstone was my favorite place in the world. You know, growing up, we would spend weekends there. My husband and I honeymooned there.
And at the time, there wasn't - there was the park newspaper, but it was more of an informational quarterly, you know, Government published document that you would get, that you still get when you enter the park, and it's very valuable.
But what I thought was missing at the time was, you know, up to date news and feature stories about bears and geysers. And at the time, the wolves were about to be reintroduced. So we started the Yellowstone journal in 1994 and it was a little newspaper dedicated to Yellowstone.
And you can interrupt me anytime, Wendy.
Wendy Corr:
No, you're doing great. If I’ve got questions, you keep going. Okay.
Shelli Johnson:
So anyway, they were humble beginnings. My husband and I, we rented a little cabin on the Yellowstone River in Gardiner, Montana. And it seemed like we worked all the time. We put 60,000 miles on our old beater Suburban, you know, driving to all of the gateway towns in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming, trying to sell, you know, advertising, you know, to attractions. And, you know, anybody - businesses, hotels in these gateway towns, and that first year, we only generated $18,000 in revenue. So it was, it was humble beginnings, right?
Wendy Corr:
But you did it together. That's really, really quite a bonding experience, I would think, for a young couple.
Shelli Johnson:
we really often joke and say it's a good thing we were newlyweds when we started the business because, yeah, my husband is a teacher, and his degree is in teaching, but at the time he didn't have a teaching degree, so he was, yeah, he was a huge support and a huge part of the business.
Well, then the thing that was the most significant was in 1995, just our second year of business, we kept hearing about this thing called the internet. And we weren't tech savvy at all at the time, you know, but thank God I was smart enough to know that, oh, this could be a big deal.
So we reserved the domain name, Yellowstonepark.com, and I think it was $7. You know, that was a defining moment. We developed our first website in late 1995 then. It was terrible, but it was 1995.
Wendy Corr:
Every website was terrible in 1995.
Shelli Johnson:
Yeah, good point. Thank you. But anyway, we won a Yahoo ‘Site of The Week’ award, and that was a big deal at the time. It kind of, you know, we had more readers and more interest in the Yellowstone journal within 24 hours of that honor than we had generated for the whole previous 18 months.
So that was my love affair. That was the start of my love affair with technology. That we could be - we moved to, went back to Lander in 1995 and it was amazing that we could be - I could be one person. My husband got a teaching job, and we could be out on the frontier with no resources. And we could market the world's first national park to the world.
So we embraced it, you know, and just kept innovating and innovating, and had interactive trip planners. We added an activity magazine called ‘99 things to do in Yellowstone Country’ that we used to print 200,000 copies of.
Wendy Corr:
Yes. I remember that. I remember that, yes, absolutely. We moved in ‘98 to to Cody, and so, yeah, I remember that.
Shelli Johnson:
Oh, that's great. Thank you. And then we translated the site into four languages, and eventually, in 2005 we won the Webby Award, people's voice for best tourism site in the world. And that was, that was huge for our small team.
And I went to New York City to accept the honor. You want to talk about country bumpkins. I mean, we met the, you know, we met Al Gore and Vint Cerf, you know, the founder of the internet, or known as the founder of the internet; the Beastie Boys, I think were there, or David Bowie. I don't remember, but it was - we met the founders of YouTube.
It was a real great experience, and so fulfilling for our small team. You know, I had a great team, and then in 2007 we actually won the entire category of ‘Best tourism site in the world.’ And that was a big deal because we were competing against sites that promoted whole countries like, I think, Italy, New Zealand. And it was, yeah, it was a big deal.
And it was, it was wonderful. And that was a significant, you know, that was a significant thing for our, our small team, and our business.
Wendy Corr:
Well, you bet, and you really did, like say, you brought Wyoming to the world in that way, because to have that kind of an honor, to focus on Yellowstone National Park. How, then, have you taken that experience? You shifted not long after that in your life, after reaching this pinnacle, and you said, Hm, I'm not sure that I'm living my best life here. What - how did that happen?
Shelli Johnson:
Thank you for asking. So in 2007, after the second Webby, we had two sons and a third son who was an infant. So we had three sons, but our youngest was literally three months old, so my hands were full, and I was just working a lot, many hours, and I had a wonderful team.
But our goal, what I forgot to mention was, I remember in Gardiner, Montana, when Jerry and I were starting the Yellowstone Journal, literally, the night before we started, I remember we were drinking champagne out at the motel. We had champagne in our little plastic cups, and I remember saying, ‘And then, if we're successful, we can replicate this for other national parks of the West.’ But I laughed, you know, it was a pipe dream. I never really thought it would happen.
But after the second webby in 2007 we were profitable and award winning, and it was ready. The business was poised, you know, to go to the next level to, you know, to replicate, maybe to other national parks.
But I just remember that year, 2007, returning from the Webby and thinking it was a real conundrum, because I wanted to do right by the business. It was my baby too, and we had started the company seven years before we started our family, and it was, it was poised, but I just, I knew that I didn't have what it took personally.
There was a certain kind of a mom I wanted to be. So it was a real conundrum to, how do I do right by the business, but still, you know, be the mom and the person that I want to be? And at that time, I read the book ‘Good to Great’ by Jim Collins, and it really had an impact on me.
And I still remember, I was sitting in my Yellowstone Journal office, and I closed the book when I finished reading it, and I tried to call Jim Collins. It's kind of naive, but I tried to call him because I was curious if there was, like, ‘Good to Great’ consulting, or just, you know, some kind of consulting or advice I could get, in how to take this business to the next level without sacrificing my personal values and everything.
And of course, I didn't get through to him, but his assistant suggested that I call a woman named Bettina, who's in Boulder, Colorado, who was a coach, who did some work for Jim Collins. And that was the first time I heard the term coach.
You know, as an athlete, I had heard Coach all the time, but it meant, you know someone who coaches the athletic team. But I was intrigued, and I hung up, and I tried to call Bettina, and she she was so generous, she gave me an hour of her time.
And she's a dear friend of mine, even now, all these years later, but she asked me really hard questions, but important ones. And I remember getting off the phone and thinking, that's what I need, someone who's going to hold my feet to the fire, who's not a friend, who's not in my family, who's not in the business.
And so I hired her, and worked with her, you know, for 12 months, and she really helped me get clear about who I wanted to be, how I wanted to be. And then the following year, in September of 2008, we ended up selling the company to Active Interest Media. And at the time, they owned Backpacker magazine, Yoga Journal, Better Nutrition, a whole bunch of lifestyle magazines, and it was a great fit, because I had been reading backpacker for 25 years.
Wendy Corr:
How fun is that?
Shelli Johnson:
Yeah, so it was really, even though we didn't set out to sell the company, we were actually looking for a strategic partner. It ended well, because - and then as part of the sale, I stayed on board for two years as a consultant, and I helped expand to Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Rocky Mountain and Zion National Park. So the pipe dream came true.
Wendy Corr:
It really happened!
Shelli Johnson:
Yes, it was a great journey.
Wendy Corr:
That's fantastic. I mean, how often does something like that - a pipe dream really come true? And you made that happen, you and Jerry and your team, that's phenomenal.
Shelli Johnson:
Well, thank you. Thanks so much.
Wendy Corr:
This coaching, then, you said, this is, this is something that I can benefit from. But it sparked another idea in you.
Shelli Johnson:
Yes, so after we sold the company, I actually, I had a lot more time. I was working about 20 or 25 hours a week as a consultant with Active Interest Media. So I suddenly had, you know, all this free time for the first time in literally years. But during some of that free time, I realized that things weren't all wonderful.
I was actually about 35 pounds overweight. I was eating terribly, you know, sleeping terribly, addicted to my - probably addicted to my email and my gadgets, just not very present. And actually a little depressed, struggling with a little depression, which was confusing, right? Because I had so many blessings and so much to celebrate.
So I actually took 18 months and just turned in to my family and my health. I just hired a personal trainer. I changed so many habits and just, I mean, just relentlessly worked on, you know, transforming my mental and physical health, and part of that was hiking.
I started hiking and hiking, seeing how far I could go on a single day, and because I didn't want to be gone, because I had, you know, really young boys at home, including a baby. And it was during those long hikes during which I had some transformational experiences.
I know that word is overused, but you know, I had some experiences in the Grand Canyon and in Zion National Park and in my backyard, my beloved Wind Rivers, that just really changed my life, you know, and inspired me deeply.
And it was during those hikes that I would recall the work I did with Bettina and how powerful it was. How I remember, when I hired her, I was, I felt kind of desperate, and I, like, wanted her to tell me the answers. And I remember she was just so adamant, like, no, that'd be consulting. I'm your coach, and I I think you have the answers, and I want to help bring those out.
And that, really, to this day, I credit My Epic Life in large part to that work I did with Bettina. In some ways, I consider meeting Bettina a life event, just because it had such an impact on my life.
And so during these long hikes, I was so inspired about, ‘I wonder if I could do that,’ because, for for whatever reason, I've always believed in people's potential, like more than they do, often, and then also, I was just so moved and changed and inspired by the wilderness and my time in nature and all of that.
And so it was that, you know, during those hikes and my health and my health reinvention, that I was inspired, that I wanted to start a company that combined everything, that you know, I would go to coach’s training. I would become a coach.
But I would also offer programs that I call Epic Adventures, epic programs where people I work deeply with, you know people individually, and then we come together as a group, and many times they don't know each other, and then we'll do an epic adventure, either in the Wind River Range or Zion National Park, is probably my most popular program right now.
And then from there, I also ended up doing, I do leadership development, and also keynote presenting. And so I'm rambling here, but that, hopefully, I think that covers the journey. I think.
Wendy Corr:
That does. Wow! So you mentioned, you just referred to it, My Epic Life, and that is your business. Now it's called My Epic Life, and you do all the things you just mentioned, but you have, recently, just within the last few weeks, you have published a book called ‘Breathtaking.’
And I, folks, I've started reading this book. I only got this far into it, because my life is too epic that I don't have time to read books like I want to. But, what a gift this book has been, even to me, even the first quarter of the book that I've gotten through. I mean, I'm highlighting all over the place, all of these moments.
And so I'd like to, I'd like to dive a little bit into your book, and because we've kind of gotten to where, okay, this is where we're at now with the book. And you've taken all of these lessons and all these things your experiences, whether it's with your family, whether it's within yourself, and you've put them into book form for those of us who may not be able to take time to go do an epic adventure with you.
But you've got so much wisdom, and so I want to talk just, just for a moment, I want to take your number one advice, your number one advice that you put in your book is, ‘Pay attention.’
Talk about that. Talk about the book and how the book takes a wilderness adventure, a hike in the mountains, and creates metaphors for the rest of us and for the rest of our lives.
Shelli Johnson:
Well, thank you. So yes, I will definitely talk about ‘Pay attention.’ I feel strongly about that. But yeah, the book is based on, you know, I've always been a writer, and I always wanted to be a writer, and I've I'm a learner and a voracious reader and an observer, and I've just learned so much, I feel like, in the last 15 years.
And the company is called Epic Life, and the last 15 years, I've just been learning so hard. There's no other way to play at it, right? I've just been reading and learning and witnessing, and I just have collected so many stories of my own, but also about people I've worked with as a coach or as a guide. And I just wanted to get it out of me, you know, to be able to share it, in case it's of value to anyone else.
Wendy Corr:
And you also include quotes from your favorite authors and people who have moved you.
Shelli Johnson:
Yes, there have been so many, I've been so inspired by the reading I do and by other people, you know. It's a tremendous source of inspiration for me, books and poems and things like that. So, yes, it's all metaphors that I've come up with, right?
I have a keynote presentation, and it's all metaphors based on these eight field tested lessons. That is how the book is categorized, by these eight lessons. And I'll tell you what they are real quick, and then we can talk about, ‘Pay attention.’
So the lessons, the way the book is categorized, is, the lessons are, ‘Know your location,’ which is all about in the wilderness, if you don't know where you are, you might be lost and it might not end well, right? And it's the same in life. I really believe you have to know who you are and how you want to be in order to live your epic life.
And what I mean by epic life is your life, not the life others expect you to live, or the life you think you should live, and it's not, I don't want to inspire people to live a life like mine. I want to inspire people to live the life they want to live. So know your location is the first one.
The second one is, ‘Carry the right stuff,’ which is all about mindset. You know, it's one of the few things we have control over. It's one of the few things we can change, not that it's easy, but we can decide what we will carry or what we won't carry, and we can do it moment to moment.
The third one is ‘Dare to fail,’ which is, you know, that really embodies my personal and professional mission, maybe more than most, most of the others. And this is just about being more courageous. We learn and become, you know, who we potentially are by daring to fail. You know, by struggling, by stumbling, that's one of the best ways we learn. So I'm all about daring to fail and being more courageous in our life and our leadership.
And then the fourth one is, ‘Appreciate your setbacks and failures.’ Um, and this, this, again, is what I was just alluding to. But if you go back in your mind, your failures there, it turns it into a more of a constructive thing, and then it makes you less afraid to fail in the future.
And right now, especially in our uncertain times, I really feel like companies have to innovate, and you can't innovate without failing. There is going to be failure. So if we can learn to appreciate that, not recklessly fail, but when we do fail, to learn from it and to carry what we learned forward.
Let's see. The fifth one is, ‘Take a load off.’ It can't be all daring to fail and struggle, right? So. But you know, how often do we go on an adventure or a trip, and we, you know, can you imagine going on an adventure and never stopping to take a rest or to enjoy the scenery? And yet, we do this all the time.
In our work, in our life, we get our heads down when it's stressful, we think we can't stop, and we actually, we need to stop. Rest is essential, so is fun, so is joy, so is awe. So that's what ‘Take a load off’ is all about.
And then it's, ‘Cherish your people,’ which is probably my favorite one, right? None of us lived our epic life alone, and people are the most important thing. When you talk to people at the end of their life, they don't talk about their accolades, they it's all about their people and the memories with their people and their relationship. So people are the most important thing.
And then the seventh one is, ‘Tend to the pebble in your shoe,’ which is all about self care and self leadership. You know, often when we hike, we'll have a pebble in our shoe, and we don't speak up because we don't, we don't tend to it because we don't want to hold others back. And we tell ourselves, it's just a little thing, it'll go away. It never does, right? It never really works out well when we don't tend to the pebble in our shoe.
And then the last one is, ‘Be all in.’ And this is just all about committing, you know, to who you want to be and how you want to be.
And then let's talk about ‘Pay attention,’ though. If I could only give one advice for someone who wants to live, you know, a life that feels authentic and true to them, it would be, ‘Pay attention.’ I just think that, and I think all of my time in the wilderness is what has taught me how to pay attention, not only because it can be a life or death difference, but because it's beautiful out there, right? It's beautiful and you have to pay attention.
But also it's, it's where there's so much wonder and awe. And what I mean by paying attention is being awake. You know, being awake in your life, paying attention. You know, I think that some of the most breathtaking moments in our life are in the ordinary things that happen throughout each of our lives, daily lives, but we miss them. You know, we miss so many of them because we just aren't paying attention.
We're worried about the future or feeling bad about the past and or just preoccupied, or we're staring at our devices. And I just feel like if, if you pay attention, it means you're awake, and you're just going to be more present. You're going to experience your relationships at a different level. You're going to have a greater impact. Everything will mean more to you when you pay attention. I'm happy to say more, but that's why that is the most important thing.
Wendy Corr:
Those are great! Now, how long did it take you to come up with the outline for your book, and to fill it up, how much of a process has this been? When did you start writing ‘Breathtaking?’
Shelli Johnson:
Well, thank you for asking. It's been years in the making. My poor family, you know, there's just clutter, there's, you know, unfinished manuscripts, reprinted manuscript scripts, piles of books everywhere. Right now, as I've been working on this I would say I've been working on this book probably for at least five or six years.
Wendy Corr:
Oh, wow.
Shelli Johnson:
The content is from my whole life, and especially from the last 15 years of doing deep work with so many individuals, leaders and teams, but I have been working on this thing for a long time. And yeah, that's why it feels so good to have it out.
It's not because I expect it to be widely read, it's because it's out of me. You know, I've done that, I've got it out of me. And I'm just hoping that, just hoping that it inspires people to reflect deeply on their life. That is the main, the main reason that I wanted to write it, and I would say it's part memoir, part field guide. So it's kind of a hard-to-categorize the book.
Wendy Corr:
It’s a wonderful book, because you do have the memories in there. You've got the stories, not just of your own personal experiences hiking, but also out there with your family. And like I mentioned, quotes from authors and snippets of ideas from other people, but always relevant.
I love to hike. I'm not an overnight backpacker by any means, but hiking in the Bighorns is, entirely possibly, my favorite pastime when I'm not singing or being able to talk with people like you. There's something so filling and fulfilling about being out there in nature. And I think anybody that lives in Wyoming probably has experienced that at one point.
Who is your audience for this book? Is it women in Wyoming? Is it people in general? Who are you hoping to reach with this?
Shelli Johnson:
Oh, thank you. It's well, to be general, the most general person I wrote it for, a general audience is anyone who would like to reflect deeply on their life. So that's the main person that I wrote the book for, but I wrote the book for anyone - men and women, I would say men and women who are in their midlife, like mid 30s to 60s. That's about the age group that I work with, mostly as a coach.
But those are years when people tend to be, you know, wanting to reflect on their life, you know, and wanting to be intentional about their next chapter or the second half of their life. So I would say, you know, a lot of times people will hire me as a coach when they're, you know, turning 30, 40, 50, 60, or when they're empty nesting, or when they're at some kind of crossroads.
Or they're sensing that something needs to shift, you know, like maybe they're in a job that's sucking the life out of them, or doesn't feel aligned with their values. And they want to consider, you know, a new path.
So I would say, I would also say this book is written for leaders who want to bring their whole humanity to the workplace and their culture, and who want to inspire that from their people. That's really important right now in the workplaces, in the US, is that people want to feel like they belong. They want to belong to a culture where they feel like their contribution matters.
And I think with the uncertain landscape we're in, with the rapidly changing, I mean, with AI, we've never been in a wilderness like the one we're in now, and I think that it's hard to find our way through. So it's also, I'm hoping that it will help leaders who are tasked with finding a way through for their people, that this might give them a new way of looking at things.
Wendy Corr:
That's fantastic. So I’ve got two more questions for you, and one's more involved. First, if you could run us through what services does your business offer? If somebody is interested in going on an epic adventure, in going on a retreat, or in hiring you as a coach. What are the levels of your business?
As far as, if somebody says, Oh, I just, I'd like to visit with you every once a while. I'd like to visit with you once, or I'd like to go all in on, you know, a week long hike. What are your options for that?
Shelli Johnson:
Well, thanks for asking. So I offer coaching, which is just, it's like, I'm a confidant, right? I'm in somebody's corner, and it's someone they can talk to and share their dreams with and their fears and and I really take this work seriously. It's deeply personal.
Our time is our life. So when someone hires me to be their coach. Their goals become my goals, and I really, you know, take that work really seriously. So coaching, I offer leadership development. So I do workshops, either virtual, from the sheep wagon or in person, for each, I offer a workshop for each of those eight field tested lessons that I shared with you.
And I also offer an eight month virtual leadership program that, I take teams through teams or groups of women, or, you know, any kind of a group, and then I'm a keynote presenter. So I don't call myself a motivational speaker. I would say I'm an inspired speaker, but I'm hired by organizations or leadership teams to inspire their people to reflect deeply on their life.
And when I'm hired to be a keynote presenter, it's usually from an organization or a leader that values the whole person, right? They aren't just interested in the ROI from their people. They want their people to feel seen and accepted and, you know, and to support their people.
And then I offer adventures. And my adventures, I will say, though I'm not, I'm an adventure guide, but I would say I'm different from an adventure guide in that I don't just offer a guided adventure. It comes bundled with deep one on one coaching leading up to the adventure.
And then, if it's a group, like I just did a group of 13 women in Zion, and I worked with them from January through May. And then each, you know, individually and on a group coaching level. And then we all came together and had this four days of epic adventures in Zion National Park. And when we're in Zion, we're staying in lodging, and then it's epic day hikes.
And then I also have offered programs in partnership with NOLS, the National Outdoor Leadership School, and also Jackson Hole mountain guides in the Wind River Range in Wyoming, and I've also offered them at Mount Whitney and Grand Canyon in the past.
But let's see. So those are my, I think that covers all of my programs. For the most part. I do travel consulting and itinerary designing as well, but that pretty much covers everything, I think.
Wendy Corr:
My word. And you have time to talk to us as well?
Shelli Johnson:
Well, I'm honored. Thank you.
Wendy Corr:
You are so busy. I compare this busyness, though, to when you were doing Yellowstone Journal. I mean, it sounds like you have so much going on, but you're also more at peace. You're in a different place internally.
Shelli Johnson:
Yeah, and thank you for asking. And it's so funny, because when I say, when I say, everything that I do, it sounds like I'm very busy, but actually there's a lot of spaciousness in my calendar. And I learned that after the, you know, after my first business and the state that I found myself in.
So I do a lot of things, but there's quite a bit of space in my calendar. I'm not like back to back calls, you know, every day, and that's just, I do my best work because I don't work a bazillion hours, if that makes sense. So, it may seem like I'm busy, but I'm quite a bit of spaciousness for hiking and, you know, reflection in my schedule, and family, of course.
Wendy Corr:
So, and that then brings me to my last point, to my last question here today, Shelli, which is one of the things that you really focus on in your book, is - an epic life is mostly an internal journey. So you think ‘epic,’ and most of us think ‘epic,’ and we think adventures and travel and and all of these things.
But what you're saying, and there's so much truth in this, is in order to make your life epic, the transformation happens inside. Leave us with this.
Shelli Johnson:
Thank you for bringing this up. I feel so strongly - this is what I've learned. This is one of the biggest things I've learned, is that living your epic life is largely and mostly an internal journey. And what I mean by that is most of us live from the outside in, myself included, I'm guilty of this.
We're so influenced by approval and expectations and what society expects and likes and what other people think, and it's just so easy to live according to that. And when we do that, we're very seldom, if ever, fulfilled.
In fact, most of the people I know, and I've experienced this, and I'll experience it again, because I'm human and and fallible, but, we're left with an emptiness, a feeling of emptiness. It just doesn't feel, we don't feel like we're on the right path, our path. What I mean by internal journey, is spending time regularly to reflect on your life.
Now, I'm lucky, I get a lot of time to do that because I go on long solo hikes on Friday, but I think that it could be 10 minutes a day or 30 minutes a week of just dedicated - like, I just need to reflect on my life. When we reflect on our life, we can sense what's missing, you know, any alarms that might be going on, off. We can imagine what's possible.
We can think about, who are the most important people in our life, and am I spending time with them? We can think about, what is incongruent right now in my life? What is, you know, what needs my attention? So I just think most of us don't take time to just reflect on our life, to think about, how do I want to be, what kind of life do I want to live?
And I think when we do that, and it's hard work, and it requires tremendous courage to live your own life - and by the way, your epic life, it isn't all great and awesome and adventures all the time, and it's not easy. In fact, I think an epic life is not epic despite challenges and hardships, but largely as a result of them.
You know, life is going to be hard. We're all going to have loss and hardship, and it's really about being present and just knowing your values and who you want to be in your life, you know, and what matters, what and who matter most to you.
So that's what I mean by an internal journey. It's like we have to get that right first, and then we have to know the difference there. Clarissa Pinkola Estés wrote ‘Women Who Run With the Wolves,’ which, I love that book, and it informs me to no end, and it informs my work.
But she said something to the effect of, we need to know the difference between that which beckons us and that which calls from our soul, and that's what I'm talking about when I talk about the internal journey, is, what what feels the most true to you, and do you have the courage, you know, to pursue that? So I don't know if that makes sense, but that's what I mean by internal journey.
Wendy Corr:
It makes all sorts of sense, and I love the fact, Shelli, that you have followed that path and that passion for you. You've gone away from the stuff that was sucking you dry, and you have moved into a life that is fulfilling, not just for you, but for your family as well.
Shelli, this has been just an absolutely wonderful conversation, and I'm so glad that we were able to do this today. Taking time out of your epic life and your epic adventures, and thank you all of that with us - folks, the ‘Breathtaking’ book, where can we get that Shelli? It's, I know it's on Amazon, and it's on your website, and your website is?
Shelli Johnson:
yourepiclife.com/book, is where you can find information about the book and order it if you'd like. It's called ‘Breathtaking, a Field Guide to Living Your Epic Life.’ I'm hoping to get it in local bookstores. I just am just now starting all of that process.
Wendy Corr:
But you just released it a few weeks ago, so you've got, it's still a newborn. You’ve got things to do!
Shelli Johnson:
Thank you for that reminder. Yes, and thank you so much for your kind words and for the opportunity to have a conversation with you, Wendy.
Wendy Corr:
I am thrilled to be able to get your passion project and your work out there to the rest of the people in Wyoming, who may not know all of the really wonderful things that you're doing there, and how you're building other people up and doing it from right here in Wyoming.
Shelli Johnson:
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Wendy Corr:
You bet! And folks, thank you for tuning in today to this epic conversation with such a remarkable Wyoming woman. We are thrilled to claim Shelli as one of us here in Wyoming, and she's one of us, more than most of us, having lived here for most of her life.
Thanks for tuning in. If you feel so moved, please check out her book. I've been reading it on Kindle, and it is just marvelous, so I really highly recommend it. Thanks for tuning in today. Tune in next week. We have another fantastic guest next week - and until then, folks, have a great week.
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The best place to learn about the Breathtaking: A Field Guide to Living Your Epic Life, is at YourEpicLife.com/book
