The push to eliminate Wyoming’s gun-free zones gained momentum Tuesday when a bill that would allow concealed carry in schools, the state Capitol building and elsewhere unanimously passed the Senate Judiciary Committee and is headed to the Senate Floor.
Tuesday’s testimony regarding House Bill 172 included input from nationally-known gun rights author John Lott, whose work has been quoted and, according to him, misquoted by state lawmakers and members of the public for years in the divisive debate over conceal carry. Lott had hoped to set the record straight about his data but was turned down when he asked for more time to defend his research.
Testimony regarding the bill took up the committee’s entire session on Thursday, and continued for more than an hour Tuesday.
The bill already passed the Wyoming House. At the close of Tuesday’s session, the Senate Judiciary Committee voted unanimously to forward it to the Senate Floor.
Are Lott’s Numbers Accurate?
Lott’s research, including a study he did suggesting that up to 94% of mass shootings take place in gun-free zones, has been mentioned numerous times during testimony about gun-free zones. His name has come up frequently both during discussions this year regarding HB 172, and during similarly long sessions of testimony regarding a gun-free zones elimination bill before the 2024 legislative session.
The 2024 bill passed both chambers of the Legislature but was vetoed at the last minute by Gov. Mark Gordon.
As he was testifying via Zoom, Lott was cut off in mid-sentence and reminded that his allotted two minutes had expired.
“OK, I was told maybe I would be, since I’ve been attacked so many times, I might have a little bit more time than that? Or Not?” said Lott, the author of “More Guns, Less Crime”.
Committee Chairman Sen. Jared Olsen, R-Cheyenne, light-heartedly responded, “Maybe we give you two minutes for every time your name was mentioned?”
But then Olsen reminded Lott that the two-minutes-per-speaker rule was inflexible, so it was time to move on to the next person.
The strict time limit was imposed because so many people want to speak out, both for and against HB 172.
If passed into law, HB 172 would allow people with concealed carry permits to carry concealed firearms in places now deemed gun-free zones, where civilians are currently banned from having guns.
Throughout the testimony, those favoring the bills cited Lott’s research as evidence that gun-free zones don’t do anything except create “soft targets” for mass shooters.
However, numerous others speaking in opposition to the bills stated that Lott’s research was flawed, and other studies indicate that about only 20% of the massacres were in gun-free zones.
During his two minutes of testimony, Lott defended his research – stating that he included only mass shootings in public places that were not connected to any other crime.
Many incidents that are actually “gang fights over drug turf” were included as mass shootings in other research, he said.
He also noted that many mass shooters’ diaries and manifestos revealed that they deliberately sought out places where they knew other people weren’t likely to be armed.
Fear Of Guns?
The fear of firearms was also brought up, as it has been in previous testimony.
Supporters of HB 172 claimed that opposition to eliminating gun free zones is driven by irrational fear over what might happen with guns, but probably won’t.
“This fear of guns and evil people who wield them strips the rights of those who intend to use guns for righteous purposes, like protecting life and property,” said Gabe Saint, president of the UW chapter of the conservative student organization Turning Point USA.
Opponents of the bill pushed back against that perception.
“I am not afraid of guns. I’ve grown up in Wyoming my entire life. They’ve been around my entire life, I’m not afraid of guns,” Charli Dziedzic of Laramie said.
She said she has young children in day care and early education facilities, and doesn’t think that those are appropriate places for people to carry concealed weapons.
Dziedzic said she’s worried that the “accidental discharge” of a firearm in a place with small children could cause a tragedy.
She also noted that outsiders – such as food delivery personnel – frequently pass in and out of those facilities.
“Those folks might care about our kids, and they might not,” she said.
Educators and others associated with schools reiterated similar misgivings about firearms in their facilities.
Tate Mullen, government relations director for the Wyoming Education Association, said that conservative U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia once noted that Second Amendment rights are “not unlimited.”
Scalia stated that gun rights could be restricted in “sensitive places” such as schools and government buildings, Mullen said.
Aaron Dorr, policy advisor for Wyoming Gun Owners, and others argued that school districts and other local entities should not be allowed to dictate Second Amendment rights.
He added that there were fears about mayhem breaking out when Wyoming approved “Constitutional Carry” in 2011 and affirmed the “stand your ground” self-defense doctrine in 2018 – but that mayhem hasn’t come to pass.
Roll Call
The committee agreed to an Amendment to HB 172, stating that 18-year-old students still enrolled in public schools would not be allowed to carry concealed firearms into their schools.
In most cases, Wyoming residents must be at least 21 to obtain concealed carry permits. But special exceptions can be made, with a sheriff’s approval, for some 18-year-olds.
The “aye” votes to forward HB 172 included Olsen, along with Sens. Barry Crago R-Buffalo, Gary Crum, R-Laramie, Larry Hicks, R-Baggs, and John Kolb, R-Rock Springs.
Mark Heinz can be reached at mark@cowboystatedaily.com.
