Wendy Corr:
Well, hey there, folks, and welcome to The Roundup. This is a Cowboy State Daily podcast where we talk to and have conversations with really interesting people in the Cowboy State.
Today, we get to look inside the mind of a federal judge. Isn't that cool? I think it's cool, especially since this federal judge is a guy that I have known for years, and I'm very much looking forward to this conversation.
First off, I want to make sure that you all know about another great podcast called the “Business From the Basement” podcast from the Wyoming Business Alliance. If you're a business person, if you know a business person, if you are interested at all in building businesses and finding better ways to to be a good community member, then you want to log on to and listen to the “Business From the Basement” podcast.
So that's what I want to talk about first. But then I want to get us to the real meat of today's conversation. Today we get to talk to judge - Federal judge - Kelly Rankin. Now, I have known Kelly since 1998 when I was the municipal court clerk in Cody, and Kelly was the Park County attorney.
Kelly Rankin:
Yes.
Wendy Corr:
And Kelly was the Park County attorney, and we didn't cross paths that much, but in a small county and in a small town, especially if you're in the same line of work, you do have occasion to to cross paths here.
And I've always been so impressed with Kelly and his integrity and the way that he just does the business of the law. And so Kelly, I'm just so glad to talk to you today. How are you? How have you been? It's been a long time.
Kelly Rankin:
It has been a long time, but thank you for having me. It's great to be with you, and I'm just tickled to have this conversation with you, but I've been - Well, I appreciate the invite and the opportunity to catch up.
Wendy Corr:
Well, I think it's been fun. I'll just start with here - we have people in common, and that's the great thing about Wyoming, is that you know people, who know people, who know people, and it gets you connected and keeps you connected. Kelly, you were here in Park County for what, seven or eight years, right?
Kelly Rankin:
Yeah, I moved to Park County in 1995 and then left, sadly, in 2003, so about eight years. And loved every minute, every second of it. And you're right, Wendy, not only you, but just common friends that we have today, and it's just such a special place. The whole state is that way. But yes, I have very, very fond memories of Park County.
Wendy Corr:
Well, it's a wonderful place, but you also come from a wonderful place. You were born in Sheridan, and Sheridan is a beautiful town. I love that town. I went to high school in Buffalo, so we were right down the road from each other.
But tell me about growing up in Wyoming, because you're a Wyoming native. Sheridan, you moved around some, came back to Sheridan. Tell us about your childhood and the places that you saw and the people that you met in Wyoming.
Kelly Rankin:
Well, I've never lived in a bad place, because I've lived in Wyoming my whole life. But you're right, Sheridan, and as you know, Buffalo, they're really also very special places.
But you're right. I was born in Sheridan, and my dad was a rancher, and so we grew up as sort of a little ranch family, and then we moved to Jackson for a few years, where he was ranching there, and then ultimately he decided to become a banker. And so we moved around again and I ended up returning back to Sheridan, where I went to junior high and high school.
Graduated from Sheridan High School - Go Broncs! Their football team is special once again this year, I keep an eye on them from afar.
But no. Sheridan was a great place, and you were nearby in Johnson County, in Buffalo, and just it was such a wholesome place to be, and a wonderful place for families, and still have lifelong friends from that area, and I try to get back as frequently as I can. It's not enough, but I really enjoyed my time in Sheridan as well.
Wendy Corr:
And of course, all the fires that they dealt with this fall and all the things that they were going through, I'm sure your heart was there as well. You left Sheridan, though, to go to the University of Wyoming.
And that was - you have been involved in law ever since you left Sheridan, because you went to law school at the University of Wyoming. Tell us about making the decision to be an attorney and to dedicate your life to the law. Why choose that path?
Kelly Rankin:
You know, at some point, Wendy, I realized that I wanted to be in the courtroom. For some reason, I got that bug, and I just wanted that opportunity.
So of course, as you mentioned, I was down at the University of Wyoming. I was a political science major, not a lot you could do with that, and I knew that I needed to do something else. So I had the opportunity to go to law school, and did, and during my law school experience, I got to do an internship in the local county attorney's office in Laramie, under the tutelage of Cal Rerucha, who was the elected county attorney at that time, and others - Rob Willis, Ken Brown, they were just wonderful mentors.
And I was just a gym rat for the courtroom, and I loved it so much, and they gave me all kinds of opportunities to be in the courtroom and try cases and do the things that I thought were really interesting. And so I caught that bug, if you will.
And then right after law school, I literally wrote a letter to every county attorney in the state and said, Please take a chance on me, and Joe Bluemel, who is a state district judge down in Uinta and Lincoln Counties, was then the Park County attorney, and he took a flyer on me.
And he and Greg Corpening, who's also a circuit court judge in that area, in Kemmerer, so I was hired initially in Lincoln County as a deputy county attorney there, and really enjoyed my time. The people were wonderful.
Judge Frank Zebre and I, on Wednesday mornings, would get in the state car and drive north up to Afton to hold county court or circuit court matters up there, and then we’d drive home, and did that every week. And so really, really a neat experience.
And then it was about a year later, I had the opportunity to come to Park County where I had some family, and that's what led me to Park County.
Wendy Corr:
Well, we were so glad to have you here for those years that you were here! You've really experienced, in that way, a very broad view of the legal system in Wyoming, because you were in both those counties before then going and becoming a judge and shifting gears and shifting the sides of the bench that you were on.
At what point were you offered the opportunity to become a judge, and what kind of went through your what kind of went through your mind there?
Kelly Rankin:
Well, that's a really good question. I think every lawyer thinks about what it would be like to be a judge, and I had spent quite a bit of time in the courtroom, as I had hoped. And had also thought, gee, someday maybe it'd be neat to see if I could be a judge.
And so I had that in the back of my mind and thought that I needed some good experience before I could get there. And so that's what I was working on. And through my time in both the Park County Attorney's Office and the Lincoln County Attorney's Office, I was afforded a further opportunity. Then-US Attorney, later-Governor Matt Mead, hired me into the US Attorney's Office.
So I left Park County to work in the US Attorney's Office. As tough as it was to leave that beautiful area and those wonderful people, went down to Casper and served as a, was referred to as an OCDEF attorney, which meant organized crime and drug enforcement matters.
Wendy Corr:
Oh, my.
Kelly Rankin:
Yeah, multi defendant, out of state drug matters and wire taps, and, you know, those kinds of things that were enjoyable and interesting as well. So I did that for five years, and then when Governor Mead stepped down as US attorney, I was fortunate enough to be appointed by President George W Bush as the US Attorney.
So I moved down to Cheyenne and served in that capacity for a couple of years, and then when President Obama came into office, he brought in a new US Attorney, Kip Crofts, who is my mentor and friend and wonderful person. He had been working for Governor Fruedenthal.
And sorry, this is sort of a long story, but he had been working for Governor Fruedenthal - please cut me off if I go too long here - but as his counsel in the governor's office, and because I was on my way out as the as a political appointee in the US Attorney's Office, Governor Fruedenthal was kind enough to offer me Kip’s position as counsel to Governor Freudenthal.
And Kip and I sort of met in the middle of the street in front of the Capitol and exchanged swords, and he went on to be a wonderful US attorney. And I went to work for Governor Fruedenthal, doing a number of really interesting things as well.
Well, Kip asked me to come back to the US Attorney's Office and serve as his criminal chief. And that was no easy feat, because I had been a political appointee, and the Department of Justice doesn't want you to harbor in as a political appointee.
So there had to be some approvals back in Washington, and once those approvals came through, I had the good fortune to return back into the US Attorney's Office, where I served there for a couple more years.
And then, to answer your question, there was an opportunity. I applied for the Federal US magistrate job here in Cheyenne, and I was fortunate enough to get selected, and so I served in that role for 12 years, just until March of this year.
Wendy Corr:
And then you took over from Judge Nancy Fruedenthal, who had served an illustrious career there. Kelly, I’m sorry, I skipped that whole US Attorney part of your bio! And I'm like, my gosh, that's so interesting, the mob stuff. I mean, organized crime in Wyoming, you don't think about that in Wyoming. And you got a really deep, dark look at that and the things that are happening.
Did your experience as a US Attorney, did that dampen anything? I mean, you've seen the criminal underbelly of the things that happen in Wyoming. How does that affect your personal life? How does that affect your personal outlook? I can't imagine that.
Kelly Rankin:
Yeah, that's a really good question. I mean, because of the type of career I've had, much of it around criminal cases, criminal matters. I mean, we had some really tough cases in Park County when I was there, kind of an unprecedented string of homicides we had to contend with there, which was really out of the norm.
But thankfully, we all got through that, and the community healed and moved on from those really awful cases. I do remember those - but also, you know, the role that I had in the US Attorney's Office, you see unfortunate cases, kind of the worst of the worst in many situations. But I learned long ago that you've really got to separate your work, you know, once I leave the office.
I think I've done a decent job of sort of separating all of that stuff, but it's important. I mean, there are victims that you need to help. The community relies on prosecutors and law enforcement to keep us all safe, and so in my role, I felt like that was really something that deserved all of my time and attention and effort.
And I was able to kind of separate the challenging components of it, but I very much enjoyed it and the people. Once again, the people I got to work with and associate with, not only the law enforcement folks, but the attorneys on both sides, prosecutors, defense attorneys when I was a prosecutor, were really enjoyable, professional, hard working people all trying to do their jobs.
And you know, it made me a better lawyer and hopefully, ultimately, a better judge as well.
Wendy Corr:
So tell me about what you've seen in your 30 years in the judicial system, whether it be as an attorney or as a judge - how have you seen the cases change? Or have you seen the types of cases change from when you were a young, fresh out of college, Deputy Attorney in Park and Lincoln County, to now? I mean, because obviously, the breadth and the scope of your cases have changed dramatically. But what have you seen as far as those changes, Kelly?
Kelly Rankin:
Yeah, that's a really good question, Wendy. You know, at the core of all of that - and 30 years sounds like I'm older than water, but I'll take it - it just means I'm experienced, right?
Wendy Corr:
Absolutely, that's exactly right.
Kelly Rankin:
Yes, yeah, right. But no, at the heart of all of this, as I said earlier, really good, hard working people, lawyers that I've had the good fortune of having in my role as a judge - but again, is, in my role as a prosecutor and other capacities - and Wyoming lawyers in particular, are really remarkable people.
And I've practiced and sat in other districts and other states around the country, and just so proud to be a Wyoming lawyer. Gerald Mason, our former bar President years ago, coined that phrase, and it's true. Just really excellent quality, highly intelligent, hard working folks that really make a difference. And I'm just proud to be a part of the Wyoming bar in terms of the changes that have occurred.
Certainly I was practicing most exclusively in state law, dealing with criminal matters, before I shifted to the federal system and started working federal matters, both criminal and then ultimately in the civil arena as well.
And you know, there certainly are trends that come and go in terms of the criminal side. You know, for instance, the sort of drugs that we see on the street, fentanyl, obviously, is a very common one today, sadly, and just devastating to people, and really can do some damage to families.
Methamphetamine has been common throughout my career, and I think unfortunately, methamphetamine sort of remains king. We see meth cases frequently in federal court, sadly.
And then on the civil side, you know, the changes really ebb and flow some. But in federal court, you know, we're a court of limited jurisdiction, per article three of the United States Constitution. And so, you know, there's got to be a federal question - meaning the case in controversy has to be an issue of U.S. constitutional law or federal law - or maybe a diversity case, which means the parties are from different states.
And so, you know, that can run the gamut from personal injury employment cases on the civil side, to contract disputes from LLC-established entities. We see a fair amount of that, and I think more of that, frankly, in my 12 years or so, just because we're a pretty friendly state for entities to form their organizations through our Secretary of State's office.
So we're sometimes seeing cases where nobody's even from Wyoming, but because they're, you know, registered here in Wyoming, and have their companies registered here, we sometimes deal with questions in federal court.
So that has changed a little bit, but by and large, we're just dealing with the cases that are filed and taking them one at a time and hoping to do the best job we can now.
Wendy Corr:
You, it seems like to me, with every step up, as it were, in your career, I would think that you would have had to gone to school for an extra year each one - because you go from county law and knowing your county statutes back and forth, to then, knowing the state statutes back and forth, to then knowing the federal! That's a lot of learning. Do you consider yourself a lifelong learner in that way?
Kelly Rankin:
Well, I think just by nature of law, the practice of law is just that you're always learning. And I think we as lawyers, we as judges, are faced with new cases, new facts, scenarios and different parts of the law that we need to sort of study up on.
And I've been very fortunate during the course of my career to be around good people, experienced people, lawyers and judges alike, that really have helped me. Wendy, I've stood on the shoulders of a lot of people at each stage of my career, and learned so much from those folks.
But you're right, there is some training that goes along with it, and we have the Federal Judicial Center that gives lots of opportunities to learn and train, and I've taken advantage of that. But really here on the bench, I've had mentors to include Judge Brimmer, Judge Johnson, who is just my neighbor here, and he's terrific. Our Chief Judge, Scott Skavddahl, has a wealth of information.
And then you mentioned judge Nancy Fruedenthal, who's nearing the end, but I've been soaking up as much as I can from her before she leaves us for good and goes into the full time grandchildren business.
But I've just had really incredible people to work with, and they've helped me along the way, and I continue to pick their brains every day.
Wendy Corr:
I'm going to ask you, Kelly, what are some of the cases that stand out for you in your career from whatever level? What are some of the cases that really got under your skin that you were not quite able to shake?
Kelly Rankin:
Yeah, the tough cases for me are cases involving children. When I was a state prosecutor in Park County, when kids are involved and they're swept up in whatever criminal activity is taking place and violence involving kids and children, those are tough cases, and we see those here in federal court.
Child Exploitation type cases that are really difficult, sometimes off of the Wind River Reservation, we see some pretty violent crimes that involve children or other innocent victims, and so those are tough.
I mean, there's no question that you know, a lot of these cases are drug related, unfortunately, and folks have addiction issues and substance abuse issues that are at the heart of a lot of the criminal matters that we see. But when kids are swept up in that, those are the tough ones.
And then, as I mentioned earlier, you know, some of the homicide cases that I've seen over the years have been tough, but again, you just do the very best with what you have, and you surround yourself with really good people and and try to find outcomes that are fair and just for everyone involved and and hope people can heal.
But those have been the more challenging cases. And unfortunately, I'm sure we'll see more of those, but hopefully, hopefully we're doing some good along the way.
Wendy Corr:
That's exactly right. What makes your job worth it, Kelly? What makes it worth getting up every day and going to work in those stacks of papers on your desk. That's ultimately why I had to leave the Municipal Court. I had a stack of files this high that was never going away, because I couldn't keep up - and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to go crazy here.
For you, this is your daily life. You've got all of these files and all of these things that you have to assimilate. Tell me what makes it worth doing every day?
Kelly Rankin:
Well, I love the work I've done - all the jobs I've had, I say often, I've never had a bad job. And every job has been different and unique, but in today's role that I am serving in now, every case is different. Every case is important.
You know, no matter, some people call them small cases or big cases, and some are certainly more complex and more time consuming and that sort of thing. But every case is important to every litigant that files a case here in our court, in the District Court for the District of Wyoming, and we give it the attention it needs.
And I hope that with myself and the wonderful staff I have that work here, that together, we're doing the right thing. My biggest fear is making sure that we don't mess up and that we get it right. And sometimes they're very close cases, close calls, but, you know, you take them one at a time, each case is unique.
Each case is, as I said, interesting, and we learn about people, and we learn about the law along the way, and we just do our very best. And I love it. I enjoy each case, and I enjoy people. Somebody once said that paper is a poor substitute for people, and really, I enjoy, you know, the interaction with people in the courtroom.
As a magistrate judge, I loved to mediate cases where I got to meet the parties and sort of afford them their day in court. I'm not mediating cases as frequently now in my new role, but I still enjoy seeing people in the courtroom and getting acquainted with their issues, and you know, their concerns, and we try to sort it out and do right under the law as best we can.
Wendy Corr:
You know, you talk about the people - we have several people in common, but you and I, before we got started recording here, we were talking about Cowboy State Daily's executive editor, Jimmy Orr - and Kelly, you knew Jimmy back when.
I want you to tell me the Jimmy Orr story, because you worked in radio for a little while, which I just think is fascinating.
Kelly Rankin:
I did, and it was such a fun, fun arena I really enjoyed. I got to do some sports broadcasting and some DJ work and spin the oldies. And that was from Sheridan to Jackson to Laramie. And I worked at the KRQU radio station in Laramie.
And one of the disc jockeys, and I think he had a muckety muck position, was Jimmy Orr, and that's when I, in the late 80s, got acquainted with Jimmy, and he's done such a wonderful job over his career. I mean, he's had such an amazing career, but Jimmy, his moniker on the radio back in the day, was Gern Yablonowitz - and so whenever I encounter Jimmy, I say, Hey, what's going on, Gern?
And I remind him of that moniker and the time that we had working at the radio station while we were both in college in Laramie.
But anyway, I think the world of Jimmy, and he's done a wonderful job here and everywhere he's been.
Wendy Corr:
We are. We are so fortunate to have him as the driving force behind Cowboy State Daily, and we're very grateful for for him and and for his unique personality and that drive that he's got to I'm going to have to call him Gern now, and he's going to say who you've been talking to, Kelly Rankin, haven't you? Yeah,
Kelly Rankin:
Gern Yablonowitz. He’s so talented, and such a great guy,
Wendy Corr:
Absolutely, absolutely. Kelly, let's, let's go off of the bench here. What's life like for a federal judge when you're not being a federal judge? Kelly, what tell us about what you do for fun, how you get out there? You really are just a citizen of Wyoming.
Kelly Rankin:
Well, like I think almost all of us that live in Wyoming, we enjoy the great outdoors, and I'm no exception. I just enjoy greatly getting out. I like to ski and hunt and hike and fish and just any of those outdoor related things.
Wendy Corr:
I think that's awesome. Again, just Wyoming, that's what we're here for. And you were fortunate enough to be born here and you never had to leave. That doesn't happen very often.
Kelly Rankin:
That's right. And I don't want to ever leave - if they kick me out, I'm not sure where I'll go, but I'll go, you know, if I must. But no, I enjoy the people.
And Wyoming is such a unique place, not just within the law, but just as you say, in general. And just everything is so wonderful about the state of Wyoming, and every town is just as neat and special as the next. And I've lived in several communities in Wyoming, and all the people are just the same.
They're great, great, great people, great citizens. And so anyway, I don't want to ever leave, but I’ll enjoy it as long as I can, and we'll continue to do that.
Wendy Corr:
Kelly, you've mentioned that you worked with Governor Matt Mead before he was governor. Do you have any political aspirations, or are you just happy to stick in your federal judgeship there and stay there?
Kelly Rankin:
Thank you. I dipped my toe into politics when I ran for Park County attorney on two occasions, and that was good enough for me. I enjoyed that experience. Talk about meeting lots of people and interesting people on the campaign trail! I really did enjoy that.
But no, my track now is on the bench. I'm thinking, this will be the last job I have and it'll be, you know, a while before I think I ride off into the sunset.
But I can't imagine doing anything else for the balance of my career. I'm very fortunate to be where I am and so I'm just tickled to be here. And I'll continue to work until they tell me, or I tell me, or somebody tells me I can't do it anymore.
Wendy Corr:
Well, Kelly, we are glad to have you there, and this has just been a wonderful opportunity, like you say, to catch up with you, to see what you've been doing, but then to introduce the rest of the state to what it's like and the things that you have to deal with - the different cases you have to deal with, the decisions that come across your desk.
Do you ever feel the weight of that? I mean, you've mentioned that you want to make sure that you do it right. Tell me about your team and the other people - do you have people that you consult with on the regular? When you say, I want to make sure that I'm doing this right? Because, as the judge, it comes down to you, but there's more to it than that.
Kelly Rankin:
No, that's a really good point. Wendy. Ultimately I have to, you know, issue the order or make the decision. And if we're in court, it's kind of on the fly, and you do the best you can.
But as I say, I'm surrounded by a great team. I've got wonderful, very bright law clerks that work with me, the clerk's office, the probation office, the federal public defenders, the CJ attorneys that work in our court every day.
And then, of course, as I said, my mentors that are on the bench, Judge Johnson, Judge Fruedenthal And Judge Skavdahl. We just, my successor in the magistrate judge role is Judge Scott Klosterman, and he's terrific, and hit the ground running, and he'll be, he'll be way better than the guy that went before him, I can tell you that.
But anyway, yeah, I lean on all of those folks, and I'm fortunate to have them, and that's really the team, and we, we just dig in and do our very best and try, as you said, to get it right every day, and on every case.
Wendy Corr:
Well, we're glad you're there, and we're glad and grateful for the team that you have that are there, really, on our behalf, and so we're grateful for that. Kelly, this has been such an interesting conversation. Thank you for taking the time today out of your very busy schedule, because I know you've got a very busy schedule, so thanks so much.
Kelly Rankin:
Thank you. It's been wonderful to catch up, wonderful to see you, and I'm just tickled by what you all do at Cowboy State Daily, and I tune in and read the articles daily. So thank you all for what you do. And tell Gern hello for me.
Wendy Corr:
I will tell Gern hello for you, for sure. Kelly, thank you for being here today, folks. Thank you for tuning in today to this episode of The Roundup. We have so many interesting people in this state, and we're fortunate to be able to have access to Judge Kelly Rankin today and and so all of the people that we're able to talk to and have these in depth conversations with.
If you out there have an idea for somebody that we should talk to, please let us know. Also, don't forget Wyoming Business Alliance's “Business from the Basement” podcast, check them out and build your Wyoming business.
Have a great week, folks, thanks for tuning in. Thanks, Kelly.
Kelly Rankin:
Thank you. Wendy.
