Wendy Corr
Well, hey folks, welcome to The Roundup! We are a Cowboy State Daily podcast, and I'm your host, Wendy Corr. And as those of you who have been tuning into our podcasts know, we focus on interesting people here in the Cowboy State. And the Cowboy State is so, so much. It's an attractant for tourists, people flock to Wyoming. This is a bucket list trip for so many people. And so for Wyoming people, we rely on the Wyoming Office of Tourism, to tell everyone in the rest of the country, the rest of the world, about us. So today, we get to talk to the woman who is at the top of that organization, who leads the team that helps us get our voice out there. We've got Diane Shober on The Roundup today. And I'm tickled, I've known Diane for so many years, and I'm always so pleased to talk to her. And especially today, where we kind of get to deep dive into this Wyoming native who has just made it her life's work to tell others about our great state. Diane Shober, welcome to The Roundup!
Diane Shober:
Thank you so much, Wendy, I'm so excited to be here with you today.
Wendy Corr:
Well, we are so glad to have you with us as well. This has been on my list, by the way, for quite a while.
Diane Shober:
I hope it's the good list.
Wendy Corr:
Oh, no, you've been on list of, who can we get? You have been on my list from the very beginning. We've got to get Diane Shober on! But we wanted to get you on when it's closer to tourism season. Well, we are now getting started in tourism season. And does that just kind of get your blood going every time it gets closer to summer?
Diane Shober:
It does. You know this has been, as you alluded to, I've been doing this for many years, it's been really, all of my career has been somewhat in the travel and tourism industry. And I love it. And I love when I see visitors come, and we hear about, you know, their experiences in Wyoming, because, as you well know, visitors and residents enjoy the same things, the appreciation for the wonder of Wyoming. And the people that are here, I think is really allowing us to bring the best of Wyoming forward through the visitor economy. And I couldn't be more proud to be a part of it, and to have been a part of it for a period of time, a long period of time.
Wendy Corr:
A period of time. Yes. We're talking 2003. So 21 years, Diane?
Diane Shober:
Yes, yes, I was living in Chicago, and working for the Chicago Convention and Visitors Bureau, to Chicago. And Dave Freudenthal had just been elected as the governor of Wyoming, and he was - through the industry and their input to him - he was interested in establishing the Office of Tourism as a cabinet level agency. And so I was contacted by some friends, people that are well known across the state from the annals of history - Gene Bryan, Lynn Birleffi, some of those folks who've been such, you know, prominent leaders - and asked me if I would be interested in it.
It was just an opportunity to come home and to get to do something as powerful and as impactful as lead, really, the efforts for driving the tourism economy for Wyoming. It's been a gift. It's been a challenge. But it has been rewarding, really, at every step of the way. And it gets me to meet people like you, establish friendships. So those are, really, the payoffs of this work.
Wendy Corr:
I agree! That has been one of the gifts for me being a part of the tourism industry in previous iterations, and current, too, because I do a music show that I've done for, oh, my gosh, we're in year 20, now, for our music show.
Diane Shober:
Amazing. And congratulations, by the way - I just think that doesn't happen without a lot of good effort, and a great product. So congratulations to you all.
Wendy Corr:
Thank you very much! But the partnerships too, that we create, in this - it's all a big family, and it touches every corner - I mean, the tourism industry, Diane, it's such a, I guess, bedrock of the state's economy. Tell us about tourism and the economy. I want to get into your background, too. But let's talk about the impact of tourism on Wyoming's economy.
Diane Shober:
I think that's really - I'm glad you're bringing this up. Because it's important to note, and I'm just a firm believer that when, I mean, at its very best, when all of our industries are thriving - and so when I talk about the tourism industry, I certainly am not talking about it at the expense of any other industry. Because without agriculture, we wouldn't have our wide open spaces and these beautiful habitats for the wildlife. I often - you know, I grew up in Gillette, Wyoming, and certainly have a great appreciation for what the energy industry, and not only in Gillette, but in other places in Wyoming, too, what it means to our state. And so there are many appreciations.
But certainly the visitor economy is one that, this is the largest private sector employer in the state of Wyoming. These are not jobs that can be outsourced. They're not jobs that are easily taken over by technology. This is a people industry, it's a labor intensive industry. These are really great career paths, you can be anyone in the C suite- you know, our industry is full of C suite executives. But also you can have a pathway to management, if you're not interested in a degree in higher education. And so it really is an amazing industry. And working in this industry - one of my former colleagues in this industry said, if you enjoy treating strangers like friends, this is the industry for you. And you know that from the work that you're doing.
The hospitality and leisure economy is one of the leading contributors to sales and use tax for the state of Wyoming for local governments. You know, we talk about having a low tax structure in Wyoming. And it is in part due to things like the visitor economy, contributing those taxes from non residents, those are not taxes that we're paying, those are contributed by our visitors. And so such an important part. And then there's, you can grow this economy without putting burdens on local communities as much. Visitors come, they spend their money, and then they return home. So they're not having to address, like, schools and many other things that are required when you're growing more traditional economic development. But again, just an important part of our state's economy, woven in there with others, but standing shoulder to shoulder with many of the legacy industries. And you know, we've been blessed with some really abundant and beautiful natural resources. But there are some things here that I think are so worthy, our state capitol in Cheyenne is unique to any of the other state capitals across the country. And then, I would hold our people up to any other place.
Wendy Corr:
Absolutely. And just a little bit more about the economy. This really touches all of us, I mean, from the person who is taking your order at the local cafe - that person is working in the tourism and hospitality industry - to the people who are running the attractions who are working in Yellowstone National Park. This is it's so wide reaching, and I think it's people that we take for granted, when we're talking about the hospitality and the tourism industry.
Diane Shober:
Think about even in a hotel. Think about what they need, from service, from the trades, plumbing, HVAC, they need contractors to stripe their parking lots every spring. So, it isn't just the people working inside the hotel, that maybe are employed, but it is by all of those electricians, fire suppression, you know, remodeling - the amount of money that the hotel industry spends on paint alone, for touch ups and, and everything, it's a continual investment. And then you think about the insurance that these operators have to purchase. You know, they're buying a lot of services from legal, accounting and fiscal. And then, as you said, the employees who are working in this industry, they're buying cars, they're buying groceries, but they're also - they're our neighbors and our friends, they're serving on school boards. They're members of the local churches. I mean, these are our neighbors and our friends. And it's woven throughout every community in Wyoming.
I think one of the things that sometimes is hard about wrapping our heads around just the sheer volume of what this industry is, is most places, you go to a manufacturing plant or you go to a ranch, or you go to a retail store to a place of business. And yet this economy encompasses so many of these other components within it. So sometimes it's almost invisible, and you don't really realize it until you're looking at tourism in the aggregate.
Wendy Corr:
Absolutely. Diane, I want to kind of shift gears, because you're talking about all of these ways that we as Wyoming citizens interact with each other and our neighbors and things like that. You are a Wyoming citizen, you were born and raised in Gillette. Tell us about growing up Wyoming, and why it is you are such an advocate for this state that you love.
Diane Shober:
Thank you. I feel emotional just thinking about it. But I was born and raised in Campbell County, born in Gillette, my grandfather homesteaded north of Gillette so we do have really deep roots here. My great grandfather homesteaded in Crook County. So there's, you know, a love affair with Northeastern Wyoming. But that certainly has spilled across the state, I got my education in Wyoming, I’m very proud of that, and then attended the University of Wyoming. Today I’m still involved and a huge supporter of the University of Wyoming, I'm thrilled with the growth and expansion of our community college system. But it is - I think there's something in us, there's something about this place, and it gets in your blood. And you don't necessarily have to be born and raised here. I think there are many people who move here, and they move here because they have that same connection, there's a connection and a respect for the land for the resource.
You know, I think we mentioned the ag industry, and I grew up with, my grandfather was a rancher, my dad was a rancher, my brother is a rancher. But when you think about their respect and management of the land, they were the original conservationists, you know, just understanding what that is. And just knowing all of these people who've done such great things, we can really make a difference in a short period of time.
We have connections to our government, to our leaders, we have connections to each other. And you know, we say this over and over again, but we all have a lot more in common, and agree on a lot more than what we ever disagree on. And I think that is really because we want what's best for Wyoming. You know, everyone is working hard, we may take different pathways to get there. But everyone really wants the best for Wyoming. I am so proud of being here.
And just really quickly, I'll share a little anecdote with you. When I first moved to Chicago, I was working on some fundraising efforts for an arts organization. And one of my board members, she had never been to Wyoming. She didn't know anybody from Wyoming. But she told me, she said, ‘When you go into those meetings, you wear your Wyoming heritage like a badge of honor.’ She said, ‘It will open doors for you, because people will say, “Oh, I didn't know anybody from Wyoming.”’ Or as we all know, when we're from here, people will be like, ‘Oh, my gosh, I know so and so from Pinedale, Wyoming. Do you know them?’ and the likelihood is, is that we probably do, at least through two degrees of separation, we'll know. So, you know, we don't get to pick where we're from, and who we are. But boy, we should get to leverage it if we want to. And it's been a gift.
Wendy Corr:
That is so true! I have to just stop real quickly, because I love your T-shirt that you're wearing. And I need you to show us your T shirt and tell us about your T shirt, because it's so colorful. Speaking of art, it's so cool. Tell us about this.
Diane Shober:
So I'm just gonna show you quickly, it is a beautiful bison silk screen that says the ‘Great American West.’ And I think, Wendy, you know this, and maybe a lot of the audience who's listening would know, but Wyoming participates in a multi state cooperative for all of our international marketing. And that's because for a couple of reasons - A) we can't afford to do it on our own. None of us simply can't. And then the other thing is, when visitors, international visitors travel to this area, they're visiting multiple states, they're going to South Dakota and North Dakota and Wyoming. And so we're branded under the ‘Great American West’. Like there's an initiative called Travel New England. That is the New England states. Travel South, is the southern states, but the Great American West is really, you know, it's this iconic part of the US that is full of wide open spaces and those kinds of experiences. And I think, you know, the buffalo is something that is representative of all of our states. And so I love it, too. I love the creative work. And thank you for acknowledging it. It really is. It's a beautiful shirt.
Wendy Corr:
It's a great shirt, and it's eye catching. And I didn't want people to get distracted. The colors are so great. But again, and you're talking about the cooperation with other states, you have had the opportunity in your job, you get to travel and meet all of these people and cooperate and work with these people from these other states. But do you have this little bit of pride, like, you know, Wyoming’s special? Because Wyoming is special!
Diane Shober:
I do. And you know, I mean, it's certainly, I'm a true believer at the very core that the rising tide floats all boats, and it's important for people to be out and travel. And we, through COVID, we learned what that was like when people didn't travel. and just the different variations of travel patterns. But you know, when South Dakota thrives, Wyoming will thrive. It is an important part of our overall travel industry. And this is one of the most generously competitive industries that I think is around.
Wend Corr:
What’s generously competitive? That's great.
Diane Shober:
We share best practices. You know, it is not uncommon, if I have a challenge or something that I want to bounce an idea off, I may call my colleague at Travel Oregon, or my colleague in Kentucky, you know, because we all embrace this - travel is essential, it is so important for the economy of the United States, the economy of the world, certainly the economy of Wyoming, and the great American West. And so it's been just, that part makes the job enjoyable. But you also, because there's such a spirit of collaboration, that spills into really everything that you do.
So as we work cooperatively with other states - and I must say, we all have our pride. But you know, I think my head's probably a little bit bigger than some because of the product that we have. And we have, like we talked about, this beautiful landscape, these natural, beautiful icons of nature. And then we have the wide open spaces. You know, this is the last bastion of the West, you can still see a cowboy out right in the fence line, moving cows, moving sheep, I still get thrilled when I'm stopped because somebody's, you know, trailing cows and moving them. I just was up in northeast Wyoming and one of my sister and brother in law's neighbors was moving sheep from one pasture to the next. And I was like, oh, oh, my gosh, and I had my phone out. I've seen it a million times in my lifetime, but it never gets old. So you know, yeah, I do. I feel like we're pretty lucky. And this is a great product to get to market and sell and share with the rest of the world. Absolutely.
Wendy Corr:
I do want to take, because you're talking about collaboration, I want to take a minute to let you brag on your team, because obviously, the Wyoming Office of Tourism is not a one woman show. Diane, you are the head, you're the person who gets out there and promotes it. But you have an amazing group of people that travel to all corners of the state, and work with local organizations to really showcase the best of what we have here. And 4th of July is going to be coming up here in a couple of weeks. Tell us tell us about your team and about what they do. When we're calling the Office of Tourism, who are we talking to?
Diane Shober:
Thank you so much for bringing them up. This is a small but mighty team. There are 22 of us, and that number hasn't really changed in 10 years. But this group of people are intelligent, they're subject matter experts. And they love what they do. They feel the passion about the industry, and they are beyond proud, just like I am, to be able to serve the industry in Wyoming and represent the state.
We have essentially three departments - we're one organization, we have our operations and administration department, really the heart of, when you look under the hood, to see what's making it work. They're the ones who do that. The Brand Studio are our marketing geniuses, you know, they're really working hard to make sure that we're capturing those beautiful stories of Wyoming people and Wyoming experiences, and developing and shaping that messaging and the strategy that sits behind the messaging. We have our partnerships team, who are working, like you said, really locally with every local county lodging tax board, individual businesses, the trade being tour operators, be that domestic or international wholesalers. Then we have a whole division that focuses on the media and PR. I mean, this is a well operating organization here.
And in the state of Wyoming, there are 23 counties, and it's not a level playing field. What the capacity is in Niobrara county is very different than in Teton county or Laramie County. And so their needs and their support and how we can best engage them to be visitor-ready communities is very different.
And so one of the things I've been the most proud of, Wendy, in the last few years is a program with some additional funding once the statewide lodging tax was passed, we were able to initiate a destination development program - and you'll see the benefits of that across the state, but it really is about helping these communities at different levels of growth and development, invest in things that can help them engage more with the visitor. And creating visitor satisfaction, that desire for repeat visitation, or extending that length of stay. Even if it's a little bit, it helps increase the economic value and output of that trip.
So, yeah, thank you, just a great team. And also guided by a fabulous board. There's a nine member board that serves, appointed by the governor, confirmed through the Senate, that oversee our agency. And I will tell you, in 21 years, I can't think of anyone - we've had such profound leaders who have helped guide and shape, even my work and what we're doing. And, you know, they're boots on the ground there. They know what this is like, to operate, and they bring that kind of perspective and lens to us.
And then also, I've worked for three governors, Governor Freudenthal, Governor Mead, Governor Gordon, and all have been just wonderful supporters of this industry. You know, it takes a lot. And then, so many great friends in the Wyoming Legislature who've been - as a state agency, it's important that we have the resources and the capacity to do the work that we want to do. Do we have, you know, the ability and everything that we need? And I must say that this industry is strong, all of our partners across the state, but certainly those in that hierarchy have been very, very important.
Wendy Corr:
That's absolutely wonderful. I want to go back to something you said about the marketing branch and working on the branding. That's something that we all see. I mean, what's the current brand? Is it ‘Forever West?’
Diane Shober:
No, the brand is Wyoming and the brand has always been Wyoming. It will always be Wyoming. But the platform and how you talk about it will vary and change. And ‘Forever West’ was just a great program. Very successful, it was retired about 10 years ago.
Wendy Corr:
Wow. That long?
Diane Shober:
Well, people still use it, you still see it, it still resonates in many things, and it served the state so well. The brand platform that kind of encompasses all of our conversations is, ‘That’s WY.’
The postal code, you know, is uniquely Wyoming. To ask a question, you know, ‘Why after 150 years, do we still say “Go west, young man, go west?” That’s WY.’ ‘Some things can't be explained, only experienced. That’s WY.’ It has a universal, all inclusive component to it. That's just the brand platform. And then, how we talk about our stories, and everything else that says within that, varies within this Wyoming platform. The creative execution that you would see in national campaigns right now is centered around modern explorers. You know, there were really, like, when you think about the value set of the curiosity, and the quest for independence, or romance, or adventure, or personal fulfillment, that has been a value of time, over time - from why people were interested in visiting a place like Wyoming, that continues today. And we have so many great people in Wyoming who are still blazing trails, and doing some really fabulous things in their areas of work, in our industry and outside of our industry. And so it's full of modern explorers.
We have another campaign that's been very, very successful - ‘WY Responsibly.’ We started it long before COVID. That came and got its biggest acceleration, but just, you know - be good stewards with us. When you come and you play in our parks, you know, be good partners. If you're out, respect the land, respect the people, spend money in communities. If you want to help support and be a conservationist, conserve these communities. Help us conserve and sustain what is Wyoming. And that means buying local, and appreciating wildlife, as well as other resources. And so that's been a great partnership conversation too.
I think about when I started, even when I started this job, we were still doing direct mail. We focused on zip codes, that’s how we broke down - you know this.
Wendy Corr:
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Diane Shober:
Technology is so vast and different and, obviously, there are some issues with what happens in technology. But really, the things that have been so valuable for us, A, it allows us to have a much more personal relationship with the consumer, because you can narrow down lifestyles and talk to you about the things that matter to you. Maybe you're, you know, a hardcore outdoor adventurist, or maybe you're a casual adventurist, which I would consider myself. And maybe you enjoy arts and culture and more. But, you know, most people who come to Wyoming, want to do a little bit of everything, and they don't come self contained. And so these relationships that you can have with a consumer help guide them through their journey, before they get here, while they're here, and then once they go home.
And so you know, technology really helps you target that much, so much more than what we could do before, where you had you narrowed it down as much as you could. But today, you really can have that conversation with the consumer, and that's where people love what they can come here and experience. And they get to share it and brag about it. I get to have bragging rights, like we talked about - our team has bragging rights, but now our visitors also have channels and ways in which they can have bragging rights too.
Wendy Corr:
I was really so glad that you brought that up, because that was going to be one of the things I was going to ask you about, is, how you've seen that tourism industry change, and the challenges that you've experienced in your 21 years. I mean, number one has to be COVID? Because that just, I mean, not only did it devastate the tourism industry, how do you come back from that? How do you market that? How do you, in your office, make the best of a really awful situation?
Diane Shober
It was, sometimes when I think about it, and I'm not alone in this, but it still seems so surreal, doesn't it? That we lived in a global pandemic? It is amazing. But the good news through all of that was, Wyoming fared better than most. And we didn't have to change any of our messaging strategies, really, because we already lived in the world of wide open spaces and room to roam. And, you know, many other places, especially urban urban destinations, were hurt much more than those of us who have more rural leisure destinations.
We were still down in ‘20 and part of ‘21, because, you know, people just weren't traveling, or they were traveling much closer to home. And then international travel has still not fully rebounded. But, you know, we're certainly at pre-COVID levels in terms of the economic value of the visitor economy for Wyoming. And I think hopefully by the end of next year, we should see maybe a full rebound of international visitation.
But it really was, it was a challenging time, but it was a bonding time, this industry was tighter than ever. We held each other up, we worked hard, we learned a lot. And I think we've come out of it smarter, more nimble, you know, just - we linked into the lessons that should be learned. And so I hopefully don't ever have to face that, but I know that there will be other challenges.
I think about the fires of 1988, the Yellowstone fires - that probably had, in some ways a greater impact, or potential impact of affecting travel and tourism for the state. You know, at that time, it was just so concentrated on our area. And so that really, I look at what some of my predecessors did to overcome that and make sure that the perceptions that were false perceptions, that they could negate those and correct those, so that people did know that you could still travel and continues to be, you know, what we face?
I mean, we don't have floods or anything this year. Fingers crossed. The weather has been fairly mild for the spring. I mean, you know, it's not been hot yet, but we're used to that. So yeah, we're looking forward to a really good summer and, coming every year out of COVID that - ‘21 and ‘22 are almost unicorn years. And so things have settled a little bit. And now we're back on, I think, a pretty even keel, we feel very optimistic about the summer of ‘24. And there's a lot of people out on the roads already.
Wendy Corr:
There are - it's so great to see, oh my goodness. There's just so many different directions that we could go here, but we're going to get short on time, and I want to come back, Diane, to you and the things that you have done. You are such an advocate for your alma mater, for the University of Wyoming. You serve on a number of boards nationally, as well as right here at home, I want to talk about the WORTH board at the University of Wyoming that you sit on, because you and I talked about that right before we got started on the actual podcast, and it really intrigued me. Tell me about this.
Diane Shober:
WORTH stands for Wyoming Outdoor Recreation, Tourism and Hospitality. And it's an initiative that was set up through the University of Wyoming - a big shout out and thanks to President Seidel for including that as part of his his initiatives to further the advancement of this industry through higher education at the University of Wyoming. It’s really a consortium of three colleges- the College of Business, the Haub School of Natural Resources, and the College of Agriculture. But it is also designed to guide, bringing in the data and the research and the studies of academia, and blending it with the real life operations of businesses operating in this industry, to create curriculum for students, information for businesses so that we can continue to be the best of the best and have a trained workforce. There's a hospitality minor through the College of Business, there are outdoor recreation management degrees through the Haub School. I think in the hospitality program, there are over 28 who will be graduating with a degree there, it really is phenomenal. And the goal of this is to continue to evolve it, with input from the industry on curriculum development, so that these students have, not only an opportunity to have an internship, but then our businesses have an ability to acquire a trained workforce. We know that workforce development is so important to all industries, I just am, I'm really, it's an exciting time, it's only been going really, for the last four years. And there's some great output. I mean, there's been work that's been going through it for quite some time, but it really has been moving forward much more rapidly, and with some great output for students. A great program at the University of Wyoming.
And also, just quickly if I can add in there, it has a ladder up-program from community colleges. And so there are many of the community colleges who are offering hospitality, tourism management, Hospitality Management degrees, outdoor recreation. And so there's that ladder-up if you want to go on to the University. There's the program that's in 27 high schools, ProStart, which is a culinary arts and hospitality management vocational program.
And so when I think about the systemic part of this industry, and what has given me great joy, it has been because of the work that I get to do, and the payoff that comes with that. And it goes back full circle to what we talked about in the very beginning, is, there are misconceptions about the value of the industry, and the career trajectories. And so, yeah, I'm excited that we are seeing some fruits of all of our labors coming together, that provide the necessary resources and avenues to pursue career paths, but also to collect all of us together to celebrate the joys of this industry.
Wendy Corr:
Well, I can't think of a better way to wrap up this conversation than with that right there, and talk about the future of the industry. Diane, thank you for being the leader in our office of tourism, that just impacts all of us in ways that we really don't even think about. We're so glad you are where you are, and you're doing what you're doing, because you're doing a phenomenal job. I must say, folks, Diane was the 2012 tourism director of the year on a national scale, so that just shows a little bit about all the things that she's doing out there for us and the voice that she has for us. Diane, thank you for taking the time with us today.
Diane Shober
My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. And thank you for all the good work you do. Always.
Wendy Corr:
Well, I love my job as I know you love yours. And we're just glad to have you where you are folks, thank you for tuning in today to our conversation with Diane Shober with the Wyoming Office of Tourism. We have so many more amazing guests coming up - tune in every week. Go back and listen to all the old conversations, because we've had just a wealth, a wealth of Wyoming people on this podcast so far, and I don't want you to miss any of those. So thanks for tuning in. Thank you, Diane! Folks, have a wonderful week.
